{"id":74,"date":"2009-02-11T12:20:35","date_gmt":"2009-02-11T11:20:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.bmj.com\/medical-ethics\/?p=74"},"modified":"2009-02-11T12:20:56","modified_gmt":"2009-02-11T11:20:56","slug":"drugs-are-bad-mkaaaay","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.bmj.com\/medical-ethics\/2009\/02\/11\/drugs-are-bad-mkaaaay\/","title":{"rendered":"Drugs are Bad, m’kaaaay?"},"content":{"rendered":"

As widely predicted, the\u00a0Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs<\/a>\u00a0has advised that ecstasy be downgraded from\u00a0a class-A to a class-B\u00a0drug<\/a>.\u00a0 This comes in the wake of the Council’s chair, David Nutt, suggesting that ecstasy ought to be considered no more dangerous than horse-riding. \u00a0(The full article can be found here<\/a>, but for non-institutional readers, a BBC item on it is here<\/a>.) \u00a0In making this suggestion, he has committed the first sin of drug policy, which is that he’s been looking disinterestedly at the evidence – and, perhaps unsurprisingly, the government has already indicated that it won’t be following the advice of its advisers<\/a>. \u00a0As we all know, disinterested scrutiny of evidence is a big no-no. \u00a0If you’re going to talk about drug policy, it ought to be in a manner endorsed by the Daily Mail<\/em> – on which, more anon.<\/p>\n

As an example of the standard of the debate on the issue, you can’t do much better than have a listen to Saturday’s PM<\/em> on Radio 4<\/a>. \u00a0(The link’ll only work until the end of this week.) \u00a0Because I’m tremendously boring, I’ve transcribed the important bits. \u00a0CQ is the presenter, Carolyn Quinn; DN is David Nutt; and DR is a certain David Raynes, speaking on behalf of the\u00a0National Drug Prevention Alliance<\/a>. \u00a0(What? \u00a0All<\/em> drugs? \u00a0I can see where this is going…)<\/p>\n

I’ve cleaned up some of the dialogue for context – deliberate alterations are minor, though. \u00a0Oh, and there’s the odd comment from me thrown in as we go along. \u00a0Hint: mine’re not italicised.<\/p>\n

\n

CQ [to DR]:<\/strong> Do you accept [Professor Nutt’s] point that drug harm can be equal to harms in other parts of life?<\/p>\n

DR:<\/strong> I think this is almost an April Fool joke, and it falls really at the first common-sense hurdle.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

[Brace yourselves – IB]<\/p>\n

\n

If we were to compare the harm of horse-riding with, for instance, tobacco and alcohol, where the harms of those two substances are well-known, and they\u2019re absolutely massive in our society, and those substances are embedded in our society, you can see that the\u00a0argument would be nonsense.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

[Mmmm’kay… but in a discussion about ecstasy and its harm, don’t you think that you ought to concentrate on… um… ecstasy? \u00a0Just a thought.]<\/p>\n

\n

Yes, of course, some people are injured by horse-riding, some people are injured while riding a bicycle. <\/span>Most people are not addicted<\/em> in the same way to horse-riding in the same way as people get addicted to drugs.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

[Ahhh… I see. \u00a0We aren’t talking about MDMA after all. \u00a0We’re talking about Drugs. \u00a0Drugs – all of ’em – are bad, and to get bogged down in specifics about a particular drug would be a terrible thing… \u00a0I mean, we might end up talking about ekkies and their addictive power (or lack thereof). \u00a0In a discussion about ecstasy, that would clearly be a Bad Thing.]<\/p>\n

\n

So I think the argument fails, but more importantly for me, is [that] I\u2019m concerned about Professor Nutt espousing this cause. <\/span>I mean, he is the chairman of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, so of course people are going to pay attention when he speaks.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

[Listen to an acknowledged expert? \u00a0That’d be silly!]<\/p>\n

\n

Now I don\u2019t object to him having an individual strong view about these things, but I think that if his view contradicts his position on the ACMD, he shouldn’t be on the ACMD and I think it would be wise to retreat.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

[ZOMG<\/a>! \u00a0Imagine living in a world in which an academic with an interest in drugs policy did research relevant to that policy, and let his findings lead his opinion! \u00a0Madness! \u00a0Whatever next?]<\/p>\n

At this point, Quinn put the point to Nutt. \u00a0Maybe he should consider his position?<\/p>\n

\n

DN:<\/strong> I think I\u2019m there because I\u2019m a scientist and I\u2019ve got an expertise in understanding the harms and risks of drugs [\u2026] My job as chair is to make sure that when we look at evidence, we look at evidence in the round<\/p>\n

CQ [to DR]:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t professor Nutt entiled to make the point that he makes, then? <\/span>You may disagree, but he says there is evidence.<\/p>\n

DR:<\/strong> I think Professor Nutt is campaigning and I\u2019ve watched him and been interested in his activities for a couple of years now, and I\u2019ve been watching him all over the world when he speaks.\u00a0 I think he actually objects to the presence of control, and I\u2019d be happier if he actually came out and said that and resigned from the ACMD.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

[Hey! \u00a0Here’s an idea! \u00a0Maybe prohibition doesn’t work! \u00a0Maybe all it does is force money into the hands of dealers, away from users who’re criminalised for what is essentially a social and health problem, and away from suppliers in impoverished parts of the world who’d welcome a legal trade and legal protection. \u00a0Maybe it results in street drugs and the use thereof being unnecessarily dangerous, and prevents users from coming forward to access healthcare. \u00a0Maybe legalisation and proper<\/em> control would be good, instead of illegality and control that’s there only in name. \u00a0Or is that the drugs talking?]<\/p>\n

\n

If he wants to write to ministers and object to the present method of control, then that\u2019s fair, and he could to that in his private capacity or his official capacity, and he could do it behind closed doors. <\/span>But when we say things in public, we know they\u2019re going to affect young people.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

[Ummm… no. \u00a0Of all the people in the world who go out on a given night to get off their chops, the public musings of an intellectual concerning the safety of their actions will make a difference to precisely none.]<\/p>\n

\n

Tonight, there will be young people taking ecstasy for the first time, and it was obvious when he wrote this that it would get into the public arena. <\/span>He said he wrote it when he wasn\u2019t the chairman, but he was the chairman-designate last year.<\/p>\n

CQ:<\/strong> Professor Nutt, this is an incredibly emotive issue, and there will be parents out there distressed to hear your message and accusing you almost of sending out the wrong message downplaying the dangers of ecstasy\u2026<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

[What message?\u00a0 The message that research is better than knee-jerk reactions?\u00a0 If only.\u00a0 Don’t feed the trolls, Ms Quinn.]<\/p>\n

\n

DN:<\/strong> No. <\/span>I\u2019m up-playing the dangers of horse-riding. <\/span>I think I\u2019m trying to get the whole issue of dangers discussed in an appropriate, balanced, non-emotive level.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

[Schoolboy error, Professor Nutt. \u00a0Stop trying to use wit, facts and argument to make your point. \u00a0Screaming’s the new black, don’tcha know?]<\/p>\n

\n

[\u2026]<\/p>\n

CQ:<\/strong> Well, David Raines, Professor Nutt\u2019s making that point. <\/span>Should society tolerate or encourage certain forms of potentially harmful behaviour like horse-riding, but not others, like drug use?<\/p>\n

DR:<\/strong> I don\u2019t want to engage in a debate about horse-riding, and horse-riding is very much a minority activity<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

[A bit like taking ecstasy, in fact. \u00a0There’ll only be a couple of million pills popped tonight. \u00a0Even at one pill per user, that’s still a tiny percentage of the population. \u00a0By the way: isn’t “horse” slang for heroin? \u00a0So couldn’t “horse-riding” stand for heroin use?]<\/p>\n

\n

and I live in the middle of Somerset in a country area\u2026<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

[Thanks for sharing]<\/p>\n

\n

CQ:<\/strong> \u2026 All right, well, other dangerous activities, then?<\/p>\n

DR:<\/strong> Tonight, tonight<\/em>, thousands of people will take ecstasy, and, of course, Professor Nutt talks about the deaths, but actually, the long-term effects of ecstasy on the brain are not properly understood<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

[Ecstasy has been a regular feature of club life since I was at primary school, and it was used counterculturally long before that, too. \u00a0There has been no public health catastrophe. \u00a0So we have a situation in which potentially billions of doses of an unregulated drug have been taken, and often in vast quantities, and there’s still<\/em> only 10 or so deaths associated with it per year (see this site, too<\/a>) – associated with, note, not casused by. \u00a0Doesn’t that give you an informal indication of its safety? \u00a0(For sure, there are suggestions that ecstasy is bad for the liver, kidneys, and perhaps depression<\/a> – but so’s booze, and the unregulated consumption of just about anything is likely to be unwise, so there’s nothing special there…) \u00a0And, besides, how could you do a more formal trial into an illegal drug? \u00a0Hmmm? \u00a0So your “lack of evidence” claim is a canard, because the very policy of prohibition that you’re advocating implicitly is that which makes evidence hard to gather! \u00a0Jeeez.]<\/p>\n

\n

and the<\/em> expert in the Uk – Professor Parrott from Swansea, disagrees fundamentally with Professor Nutt.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

[Scientists disagreeing? \u00a0Welcome to academia!]<\/p>\n

Oh, dear. \u00a0I think I might have to go to watch some Brass Eye<\/a>.\u00a0 In the meantime, having mentioned the Daily Heil<\/em>, I can’t help but to draw your attention to one of the comments from readers that the story<\/a> has attracted: Professor Nutt, says Mr\u00a0J Smith from Birmingham, “<\/span><\/em>is very aptly named. He should not worry about horse riding resulting in 100 deaths per year. Socialism is killing 10,000 people a year in hospitals with MRSA and C-Difficile. We had never heard of these when Margaret Thatcher was in charge.”<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

Gawd bless the Daily Heil<\/em>.<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

As widely predicted, the\u00a0Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs\u00a0has advised that ecstasy be downgraded from\u00a0a class-A to a class-B\u00a0drug.\u00a0 This comes in the wake of the Council’s chair, David Nutt, suggesting that ecstasy ought to be considered no more dangerous than horse-riding. \u00a0(The full article can be found here, but for non-institutional readers, a […]<\/p>\n

Read More…<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[511,475],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-74","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-in-the-news","category-politics"],"yoast_head":"\nDrugs are Bad, m'kaaaay? - Journal of Medical Ethics blog<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/blogs.bmj.com\/medical-ethics\/2009\/02\/11\/drugs-are-bad-mkaaaay\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Drugs are Bad, m'kaaaay? - Journal of Medical Ethics blog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"As widely predicted, the\u00a0Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs\u00a0has advised that ecstasy be downgraded from\u00a0a class-A to a class-B\u00a0drug.\u00a0 This comes in the wake of the Council’s chair, David Nutt, suggesting that ecstasy ought to be considered no more dangerous than horse-riding. \u00a0(The full article can be found here, but for non-institutional readers, a [...]Read More...\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/blogs.bmj.com\/medical-ethics\/2009\/02\/11\/drugs-are-bad-mkaaaay\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Journal of Medical Ethics blog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-02-11T11:20:35+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2009-02-11T11:20:56+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"BMJ\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"BMJ\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"8 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/blogs.bmj.com\\\/medical-ethics\\\/2009\\\/02\\\/11\\\/drugs-are-bad-mkaaaay\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/blogs.bmj.com\\\/medical-ethics\\\/2009\\\/02\\\/11\\\/drugs-are-bad-mkaaaay\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"BMJ\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/blogs.bmj.com\\\/medical-ethics\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/ba3da426ed20e8f1d933ca367d8216fe\"},\"headline\":\"Drugs are Bad, m’kaaaay?\",\"datePublished\":\"2009-02-11T11:20:35+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2009-02-11T11:20:56+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/blogs.bmj.com\\\/medical-ethics\\\/2009\\\/02\\\/11\\\/drugs-are-bad-mkaaaay\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":1584,\"commentCount\":94,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/blogs.bmj.com\\\/medical-ethics\\\/#organization\"},\"articleSection\":[\"In the News\",\"Politics\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/blogs.bmj.com\\\/medical-ethics\\\/2009\\\/02\\\/11\\\/drugs-are-bad-mkaaaay\\\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/blogs.bmj.com\\\/medical-ethics\\\/2009\\\/02\\\/11\\\/drugs-are-bad-mkaaaay\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/blogs.bmj.com\\\/medical-ethics\\\/2009\\\/02\\\/11\\\/drugs-are-bad-mkaaaay\\\/\",\"name\":\"Drugs are Bad, m'kaaaay? 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